Hey Seth

you guys are right, it's totally fine if this amateur website continues to waste all of our time.

I say give them a chance….One snafu is no reason to go back to TM…

I mean think about it if they go back to TM Seth is giving his money to LN…I know he does that currently with some shows  but the goal must be -ultimately- not to feed the hand that bites you.

Also, weren't tickets available later when the snafu was cleared up? Its not as if the show sold out in 3 minutes and you couldn't get a ticket!

Also the convenience fees weren't high at all. I can easily forgive Friday's SNAFU since ticketfly doesn't charge convenience fees that begin to get ridiculously high.

seth, i'll answer your "what would you have done" question tomorrow. 

in the meantime:

- asking a venue operator or promoter to take responsibility for wasted productivity is pointless and, as others have pointed out, juvenile.
- going back to in-person sales wouldn't help much and would cause way more inconvenience than good.  online ticketing systems are awesome when they work… so let's get this one to work.
- yes, sometimes the jokes do write themselves

runwhiteyrun06 wrote:
Also the convenience fees weren't high at all. I can easily forgive Friday's SNAFU since ticketfly doesn't charge convenience fees that begin to get ridiculously high.

disagreed.  i'd rather pay $10 more and have a platform that gives me a fair shake at getting tickets, vs. a cheap solution that crashes and leaves me hanging for an hour.

I had no problem buying my Broken Bells tickets on Saturday.  Site didn't crash or anything.  ;)

These Phish-ticket-buying-nightmare stories are a bit scary; I hope at least part of the "problem" has been solved by the time a hot show at MPP I want to go to comes around.

I have no big problem with Ticketfly myself, though.  It's always seemed a nice, user-friendly alternative to the Live Nation/Ticketmaster goliath.  *shrugs*

we're gonna get this thing right, but it might take a few stumbles

the fact that someone couldn't get Phish tickets during the first 40 minutes is not a reason to stop trying

btw…in case nobody noticed…the Merriweather Ticketfly fees are a flat $7 per ticket regardless of ticket price…$4 per order handling…no other charges unless you want them overnighted…we absorb credit card fees, which is probably what people didn't realize was jacking up the price at check-out

this is a huge drop from what it used to be

930 is different because we weren't able to make the same kind of deal that we could with the huge volume that Merriweather does

StoneTheCrow wrote:

Mr.Whippy wrote:
So at least this system would improve the whole scalping thing a bit.

Disagree completely.

Maybe this isn't worth bringing up because it doesn't sound like in-person ticketing is being considered, but how would selling the most high demand tix in person not improve the scalping problem?

I think a big part of what drives the scalping issue is that online ticketing has made it so easy for people to be scalpers.  It takes no effort, you just log in right at the moment of the onsale and try to get lucky.  A huge amount of the Phish traffic that made the system crash was scalpers.  If you don't believe me, check out CL, Ebay, stubhub, etc.  If the best tix were sold in person, scalpers would actually have to work to get them.    How could that not improve the situation?

Because they would probably still "work" in order to get them.

betao wrote:
Because they would probably still "work" in order to get them.

Yes, some might continue to work to get them, but isn't that an improvement over the current system where it takes scalpers virtually no work to get premium tix? 

You have to think that making people actually put in hours of effort to get tix would curb some of the e-bay and craigslist scalpers.

I'm old enough to remember getting tix for shows before the internet and it was much easier to consistently get good seats then if you were willing to wait in line.  These days it is just purely random as to whether your order will get through or not for good tix, even with an efficient system like ticketmaster. 

This is probably a stupid question, but for big name shows why couldn't ticket providers print the buyer's name on the ticket and then label any extra tickets they buy as guest? When you enter the venue, you have to show ID showing it is actually you and then if you buy any extra tickets label them as guest tickets? It wouldn't solve everything, but scalpers would be more reluctant to buy a ticket if they know one of their tickets can only be used on themselves.

runwhiteyrun06 wrote:
This is probably a stupid question, but for big name shows why couldn't ticket providers print the buyer's name on the ticket and then label any extra tickets they buy as guest? When you enter the venue, you have to show ID showing it is actually you and then if you buy any extra tickets label them as guest tickets? It wouldn't solve everything, but scalpers would be more reluctant to buy a ticket if they know one of their tickets can only be used on themselves.

This is exactly what Nine Inch Nails used to do with their fanclub, and it was a great system.  It is probably a little labor-intensive to think it could be done for all the seating, though. 

There is also the paperless ticketing system that Springsteen and ACDC used which is another good option.  It doesn't make scalping impossible, but makes it much harder.

Seth, you have come out as saying you are against scalping.  Well, this might be your chance to do something about it.  Instead of having TicketFly scramble to increase capacity for demand that was largely driven by scalpers, why not institute a system for big shows that seriously curbs the scalping.  It might even cost less to do that than to do the needed upgrades to TicketFly. 

It is worth noting that the TicketFly system worked fine for MMJ.  I think it is just a matter of handling that initial period of very high demand.  So, handle that high demand period in a different way that has the added bonus of getting the tix to the real fans and not the scalpers.

I was just about to mention thats what NIN did. It was pretty effective in combating scalping, made it pretty hard for them to prosper. At least a few artists are doing something about it.

If you search "Ticketmaster" you get a shitload of posts complaining about technical snafus on the TM site, particularly for big shows.  I guess the grass is always greener though…

Mr.Whippy wrote:

betao wrote:
Because they would probably still "work" in order to get them.

Yes, some might continue to work to get them, but isn't that an improvement over the current system where it takes scalpers virtually no work to get premium tix? 

You have to think that making people actually put in hours of effort to get tix would curb some of the e-bay and craigslist scalpers.

Yeah but it would also curb alot of honest buyers who for whatever reason can't be at a box office at the given time. The profit margins for some tickets that scalpers sell are so damn high that I can easily see them taking the time to get out there.

And still, I think even then, the majority of fans who buy tickets would prefer to do online selling, as opposed to showing up with thousands of other people to get tickets. It unfortunately appears to be more convenient for everyone.

However, I stand by the other post regarding what NIN did. Issue non-transferable tickets with the buyers name on them. The problem is though is that the NIN camp doesn't get to issue all the tickets themselves. Reznor wrote an essay on it, it's a good read.

betao wrote:

Mr.Whippy wrote:

betao wrote:
Because they would probably still "work" in order to get them.

Yes, some might continue to work to get them, but isn't that an improvement over the current system where it takes scalpers virtually no work to get premium tix? 

You have to think that making people actually put in hours of effort to get tix would curb some of the e-bay and craigslist scalpers.

Yeah but it would also curb alot of honest buyers who for whatever reason can't be at a box office at the given time. The profit margins for some tickets that scalpers sell are so damn high that I can easily see them taking the time to get out there.

And still, I think even then, the majority of fans who buy tickets would prefer to do online selling, as opposed to showing up with thousands of other people to get tickets. It unfortunately appears to be more convenient for everyone.

However, I stand by the other post regarding what NIN did. Issue non-transferable tickets with the buyers name on them. The problem is though is that the NIN camp doesn't get to issue all the tickets themselves. Reznor wrote an essay on it, it's a good read.

I understand the ease of online buying, and maybe it is unrealistic to think about going back to in-person, but there are still things TicketFly could do to reduce scalping and thus the demand on their system.

Having a paperless system where ID or the credit card used to purchase the tickets has to be shown for entry would curb a ton of the scalping and thus cut the demand on the system.  Maybe this would be a good option if it is possible to implement.

Seth wrote:
we're gonna get this thing right, but it might take a few stumbles

the fact that someone couldn't get Phish tickets during the first 40 minutes is not a reason to stop trying

btw…in case nobody noticed…the Merriweather Ticketfly fees are a flat $7 per ticket regardless of ticket price…$4 per order handling…no other charges unless you want them overnighted…we absorb credit card fees, which is probably what people didn't realize was jacking up the price at check-out

this is a huge drop from what it used to be

930 is different because we weren't able to make the same kind of deal that we could with the huge volume that Merriweather does

Seth, a wish / question not pertaining to the recent MPP sale issue but still on topic…What about offering the ability to purchase different show tickets in one bulk order? We used to be able to do this at tickets.com.
This would be really helpful. It's one thing for there to be multiple fees to be tagged on one order, but when purchasing multiple tickets for different events - it's way more costly. (you do have repeat patrons for multiple shows throughout the year) Maybe it's a compromise? Some of us can't afford the fees, but purchasing tickets in bulk (different shows / ticket orders combined) still makes you money on multiple tickets sold (shows vary in price) and helps the customer with less fees on multiple orders. Please?  :-*

Sorry to put this in this thread and to repeat what I wrote long ago. It's not whining, it just would be really helpful and it was great in the past. Currently there are at least 4 shows I want to attend and would purchase each online if I could bulk them together. Otherwise, I just can't afford it.

So Rihanna/Ke$ha/Nicki Minaj have a show at Jiffy Lube on 8/20 and they have an off night before that.  Any chance we can have a Ke$ha solo show at the club that night?.  I think that would be a pretty fun party for some people.

Thanks Seth.

betao wrote:
Because they would probably still "work" in order to get them.

This is correct…and they will charge you for the "extra work" they had to put in and the "difficulty" of obtaining the best tickets.  Problem definitely not solved.

The NIN solutuion last year worked flawlessly.  Put a name on the ticket and insist that the person whose name appears on the ticket enter the venue with all of the tickets he/she purchased.  Sure it sucks when people back out and/or cannot meet beforehand to walk in together but that's another (smaller) problem for another day.

StoneTheCrow wrote:

betao wrote:
Because they would probably still "work" in order to get them.

This is correct…and they will charge you for the "extra work" they had to put in and the "difficulty" of obtaining the best tickets.  Problem definitely not solved.

The thing you are not accounting for, though, is that the prices people will pay for scalped tickets has an upper bound on it.  Making the scalpers really work to get the good tix won't push up people's maximum willingness to pay for them, but it would really eat into the profit that a scalper makes (if you consider their time spent).  I think it would deter some casual scalpers who do it now just because it is so easy to get tix under the current system.

It doesn't sound like in-person ticketing is a realistic option anyway, but if some kind of paperless system could be done for the premium seats at Merriweather, that would be great and really help the scalping issue, as well as Ticketfly's issues with meeting capacity for selling tix during the initial rush.

Every scalper is salivating at the thought of in-person sales only. If you gave them the choice of competing against 200-500 people at a box office or against 2000-5000 people online? They'll take the in person option in a heartbeat. It would be a double win for them. Less competition for good tickets and they would no longer have to pay the $5,000+ they annually dish out to various memberships for all the venues and fan clubs they sign up for.

FYI - As much as every venue say's there against scalping, off the record every venue believes: "If you're tickets aren't being scalped your not having a good season"