Dropping Like Flies

Brian_Wallace wrote:
Heroin's a horrible drug.  Almost impossible to fully get clean from.  That's not the sad part.  There are non-celebrities out there who get addicted to junk and have no resources and no money to fight their addiction.  Phillip Seymour Hoffman had the money and the resources that 100 junkies didn't have.   Supposedly he was able to be clean for 20+ years.  Do you and I have that option?  No.  Also, when you or I OD no one is penning heartfelt Twitter tributes to our "genius talent".   So forgive me if I cry no tears or have "diarrhea of the mouth". 

Brian

Upon hearing the news yesterday I felt sad, then mad and that's exactly what I said to someone yesterday. He had access to resources, people who would want to help him, financial resources and ability to get care that some of us could only dream about…but I think that a lot of great artists and actors have their own demons and often that's what makes them so talented. They're able to put themselves so fully into some roles that it consumes them and they think the only way to remove themselves from those dark places is through drugs. Gandolfini greatly struggled with removing himself from his Sopranos role and was grateful to move on from it because it took so much out of him. Incredible that after being clean for 20+ years PSH still succumbed to addiction. But I do feel a certain level of empathy, especially for his kids and family. You don't have to shed tears. But I think most of us also feel disappointed, upset, and have a hard time accepting it because it seems senseless. But if nobody cries for you if you OD, maybe you didn't do enough with your life or reach out to enough people that made them feel sorry for you being gone.

And for what it's worth, this is still one of my favorite roles he did:

http://www.spin.com/articles/philip-seymour-hoffman-lester-bangs-almost-famous/

bearman wrote:
Incredible that after being clean for 20+ years PSH still succumbed to addiction.

no way that we know this to be a fact.. and i would be very skeptical that it was so..

but it doesn't matter anymore…

hutch wrote:

bearman wrote:
Incredible that after being clean for 20+ years PSH still succumbed to addiction.

no way that we know this to be a fact.. and i would be very skeptical that it was so..

but it doesn't matter anymore…

True. We know that he went to rehab in 2012. Good point. Though it was reported from various news sources that he was clean through much of that. Who knows. It still sucks. Another nice piece:

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/02/philip-seymour-hoffman-the-greatest-actor-of-his-generation/283523/

It is easy to find fault with others.  If you don't have anything good to say about someone who just died it is best not to say anything at all.  We don't know any of these celebrities that die so it really doesn't affect us too much but I think the purpose of this thread is to honor people and not to make you feel better about yourself because you didn't die of heroin overdose.

atomic wrote: I think the purpose of this thread is to honor people and not to make you feel better about yourself because you didn't die of heroin overdose.

My pride in not dying because of a heroin overdose is the only thing that keeps me from such cripplingly low self-esteem I cannot function in society. Thanks, jerk.

Many people get clean from heroin and stay clean for the remainder of their lives.  For sure it is a monumentally difficult process though.

But many do not. 

I do truly believe some people are beyond hope or help.  I've no idea if PSH falls into this category.  One thing i do know is that it takes a lot more than money to get clean.  Sure money helps in the process, but it will ultimately not factor in when a person zigs when they should have zagged.

atomic wrote:
It is easy to find fault with others.  If you don't have anything good to say about someone who just died it is best not to say anything at all.  We don't know any of these celebrities that die so it really doesn't affect us too much but I think the purpose of this thread is to honor people and not to make you feel better about yourself because you didn't die of heroin overdose.

I can say whatever I want.  I'm not going to be tsk tsked from a grown man who goes by the name "atomic."  Why are we "honoring" an actor?  Would we "honor" your third grade teacher?  Your dentist?  Your garbage man?  They affect your life far more than the fat guy from "Hunger Games."  Someone you've never met.  If Phillip Seymour Hoffman really affected your life then I suggest you step away from the computer, go outside, get some fresh air and maybe meet a girl. 

You ACTUALLY typed the words "I think the purpose of this thread…(is) not to make you feel better about yourself because you didn't die of heroin overdose."  What a stupid mofo you are.

I don't know who Jared Padalecki is but much props:

http://www.toofab.com/2014/02/03/jared-padalecki-levar-burton-philip-seymour-hoffman-tweets/

Brian

Brian_Wallace wrote:
Why are we "honoring" an actor?  Would we "honor" your third grade teacher?  Your dentist?  Your garbage man? 

Who is honoring anyone? Its an on-going thread of famous people's deaths. Virtually everyone on here would agree their third grade teacher was a bigger influence on their life than PSH and we would "honor" them by taking twenty seconds to reflect and go "oh, Miss _____ died? That sucks. She taught me about turtles," the same way we respond to PSH's death with twenty seconds of "Oh, he died? That's sad. He was good in Magnolia." You act like people are being wildly histrionic about the whole thing despite the fact none of us are.

Brian_Wallace wrote:
If Phillip Seymour Hoffman really affected your life then I suggest you step away from the computer, go outside, get some fresh air and maybe meet a girl. 

Again, who is claiming PSH affected their life in a real way? Nice strawman there, Bernard.

How fucking obtuse does a person have to be to not see that it is sad?

hutch wrote:

bearman wrote:
Incredible that after being clean for 20+ years PSH still succumbed to addiction.

no way that we know this to be a fact.. and i would be very skeptical that it was so..

Why skeptical?

ggw wrote:
Why skeptical?

From my absurdly limited knowledge about recidivism patterns among drug addicts, it is extraordinarily rare that someone kicks something for 20 years (without relapsing) before going back. It's like 500 times* more likely that there were several relapses in that interim period, statistically.*

* - Completely made up statistics that are not intended to be passed off as actual statistics, but rather hyperbole culled from anecdotal evidence.

Julian, wrote:

ggw wrote:
Why skeptical?

From my absurdly limited knowledge about recidivism patterns among drug addicts, it is extraordinarily rare that someone kicks something for 20 years (without relapsing) before going back. It's like 500 times* more likely that there were several relapses in that interim period, statistically.*

* - Not actual statistics, purely anecdotal.

Both scenarios happen.  Neither one is that rare.  Certain scenarios are absolutely more likely to occur than others, but it's not like it they are extremely isolated incidents.

Brian_Wallace wrote:

atomic wrote:
It is easy to find fault with others.  If you don't have anything good to say about someone who just died it is best not to say anything at all.  We don't know any of these celebrities that die so it really doesn't affect us too much but I think the purpose of this thread is to honor people and not to make you feel better about yourself because you didn't die of heroin overdose.

I can say whatever I want.  I'm not going to be tsk tsked from a grown man who goes by the name "atomic."  Why are we "honoring" an actor?  Would we "honor" your third grade teacher?  Your dentist?  Your garbage man?  They affect your life far more than the fat guy from "Hunger Games."  Someone you've never met.  If Phillip Seymour Hoffman really affected your life then I suggest you step away from the computer, go outside, get some fresh air and maybe meet a girl. 

You ACTUALLY typed the words "I think the purpose of this thread…(is) not to make you feel better about yourself because you didn't die of heroin overdose."  What a stupid mofo you are.

I don't know who Jared Padalecki is but much props:

http://www.toofab.com/2014/02/03/jared-padalecki-levar-burton-philip-seymour-hoffman-tweets/

Brian

I can truthfully state that Phillip Seymour Hoffman had a more positive affect on my life than my third grade teacher.  I have never had a cavity or any dental problems and my dentist spends about 30 seconds with me each month to say keep up the good work.  As for my garbage man,  I have never met him but he seems to do a good job.

When "heroes" kill themselves society wants them to remain heroes….hence the rationalizations we hear about how artists are different and this difference which gives us their art leads them to be martyrs for their art…..I kind of think its all bullshit.

Kurt Cobain wasn't' a hero … he blew his brains out leaving a baby behind… there probably was mental illness… yes, that is true..


but you do wonder.. if PSH had issues with drugs all he had to do was drop out of society and buy an island in the pacific…what does it say that he didn't prioritize staying clean? cause living in NYC where you were an admitted heroin addict does not seem like prioritizing staying clean..and i'm not buying he was clean for 20 years… that is what you say in the interviews.. you have to say that… you don't say.. "oh yeah every once in a while i do some heroin or a line of blow"…

shooting heroin when you have three kids is something i can't understand or respect really..

and, no, i dont feel better about myself writing these words..not at all.. i'm sad the guy is dead because he was an interesting actor…when he was in a movie you know it had some real potential..yes its selfish but i'm sad because i won't see him in any new movies and when i do see an old movie of his i'll think "what a waste!"… i'm also sad for his three kids…cause i have kids so i thinkk about that shit.

but i think there is quite a double standard here…in how we react to movie or music stars going by way of drugs or alcohol and mere mortals…. some guy in the hood without a penny to his name and no job dies of a heroin overdose and we as a society call him a loser, a failure, a fuckup… we may even think, as a society: "good riddance"… when PSH dies we create a construct to try to explain or rationalize his death…

ymmv

Julian, wrote:
Again, who is claiming PSH affected their life in a real way? Nice strawman there, Bernard.

So we're "honoring" someone's death and it's very "sad" yet this person did not affect anyone's life in a real way?

Whatever.  I can't speak with less-educated people than I.  I'm not even disappointed that you all fell for it.  Man, it is so easy to pick all of you off, the intellectually disabled.  You're like gnats.  Incredibly annoying but easy to get rid of.

Brian

Brian_Wallace wrote:
So we're "honoring" someone's death and it's very "sad" yet this person did not affect anyone's life in a real way?

No, if you read my post, I specifically said no one was "honoring" him. If you don't think it's sad to hear someone died at 46 from something stupid, even if that person hasn't affected your life, then I don't know what to tell you.

hutch wrote:
but you do wonder.. if PSH had issues with drugs all he had to do was drop out of society and buy an island in the pacific…what does it say that he didn't prioritize staying clean? cause living in NYC where you were an admitted heroin addict does not seem like prioritizing staying clean..and i'm not buying he was clean for 20 years… that is what you say in the interviews.. you have to say that… you don't say.. "oh yeah every once in a while i do some heroin or a line of blow"…

Really!?!?

Becoming a hermit is the only way to stay clean?

There are no recovered addicts living in NYC?

Anyone in NYC who claims to be clean for years is lying?

Fairly well put Hutch…at least the first paragraph or two.

What I don't get if people's refusals to even try to understand struggles they do not endure themselves. 

It's called empathy.

Though in this case, it is admittedly hard to wrap your head around this guy's decisions when he had the world in his hand, and more importantly 3 kids that are now fatherless.

Addiction is a cruel and baffling adversary.  As someone who has dealt with it first hand, has lost countless friends to it, it is very upsetting to hear people dismiss any addicts death as "just a junkie getting what was coming to him".  Nobody here said anything quite to that extent, but addiction has a face well beyond the addict himself.

Brian I don't hear anyone honoring his death.  But I do honor his life and his contributions.  And if you don't think it's sad, tell that to his kids.  Tell it to my kids who buried their mom over this shit 6 months ago. 

ggw wrote:
Really!?!?

Becoming a hermit is the only way to stay clean?

I don't think that's what hutch was trying to say at all. He appears, to me, to be pointing out PSH had unrivaled resources to combat his addiction and could take hysterically over-the-top measures to assist himself if he chose to do so.